Comments on: Hatzlochoh Butcher is a Tzadik http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/ Idols are for eating Tue, 17 Jun 2008 03:12:32 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Best Home http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-36965 Best Home Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:28:57 +0000 http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-36965 This is very nice and informative post. I have bookmarked your site in order to find out your post in the future. This is very nice and informative post. I have bookmarked your site in order to find out your post in the future.

]]> By: Yoseph Leib http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-126 Yoseph Leib Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:04:15 +0000 http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-126 no, no. I seriously misread it the first time. Tesha Chanuyos is on the same block? I thought in the same town? no, no. I seriously misread it the first time. Tesha Chanuyos is on the same block? I thought in the same town?

]]> By: Levi http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-124 Levi Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:42:29 +0000 http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-124 get a grip yosef "tesha chanuyos mochrim basar shchuta" is a mishna, the hypothetical stores are all on one block, and you know it doesnt say bachur so quit playing holy get a grip yosef “tesha chanuyos mochrim basar shchuta” is a mishna, the hypothetical stores are all on one block, and you know it doesnt say bachur so quit playing holy

]]> By: needelr http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-51 needelr Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:20:39 +0000 http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-51 and for that matter, who is hatchlacha bachur? and for that matter, who is hatchlacha bachur?

]]> By: needelr http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-50 needelr Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:20:01 +0000 http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-50 who was the story about, the tzanzer maybe? Some Rav finds meat in the street, just like in the gemara where if two thirds of the meat in town is kosher, then you can assume it's kosher. He decides not to eat it just to be on the safe side, and the rebbe hears about it and sighs. "What a chance to mitakken that meat... gone! Imagine if it was traif, and that was his chance to really eat it in holiness!" On the other hand, I really worry that the doctrine of tikkun is misunderstood at best, bullshit at worse. It's easier to talk about kashrut on the spark level, because kashrut is so metaphysical and unquantifiable anyway, at least for the most part. What about "real" wrong doing, with real victims... like meat eating in general I guess. Can we joyfully trust in the spark raisng of our acceptable sins then? holy rape, holy killing, in the place where it was permitted unto you for whatever political or technical reason? How much is wrong unchangeably wrong, only saveable by--? Because real human boundaries get crossed sometimes, even within the frameworks of halacha, hence the biblical prohibition on justifying evil through Torah... we are in danger of hurting others or getting put in jail, and once even that is ok, then what? who was the story about, the tzanzer maybe? Some Rav finds meat in the street, just like in the gemara where if two thirds of the meat in town is kosher, then you can assume it’s kosher. He decides not to eat it just to be on the safe side, and the rebbe hears about it and sighs.

“What a chance to mitakken that meat… gone! Imagine if it was traif, and that was his chance to really eat it in holiness!”

On the other hand, I really worry that the doctrine of tikkun is misunderstood at best, bullshit at worse. It’s easier to talk about kashrut on the spark level, because kashrut is so metaphysical and unquantifiable anyway, at least for the most part. What about “real” wrong doing, with real victims… like meat eating in general I guess. Can we joyfully trust in the spark raisng of our acceptable sins then? holy rape, holy killing, in the place where it was permitted unto you for whatever political or technical reason? How much is wrong unchangeably wrong, only saveable by–?

Because real human boundaries get crossed sometimes, even within the frameworks of halacha, hence the biblical prohibition on justifying evil through Torah… we are in danger of hurting others or getting put in jail, and once even that is ok, then what?

]]> By: allahhuechad http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-47 allahhuechad Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:44:30 +0000 http://sevenfatcow.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/hatzlochoh-butcher-is-a-tzadik/#comment-47 From a sabbatean perspective, this whole thing is amazing. The idea of doing tikkun by eating treif, with the proper kavonos was embraced by Shabbetai Tzvi, and even more so by Yaakov Leib Frank. So think about it. For years now, monsey jews have been saying brochos, with their various kavonos, on treif meat. Totally altruistic, because they didn't know. Seudos mitzvah, weddings, bar mitzvahs, gevalt gevalt! More to come on this one, but the irony and the potential for deep lessons and questions on this matter are limitless. From a sabbatean perspective, this whole thing is amazing. The idea of doing tikkun by eating treif, with the proper kavonos was embraced by Shabbetai Tzvi, and even more so by Yaakov Leib Frank. So think about it. For years now, monsey jews have been saying brochos, with their various kavonos, on treif meat. Totally altruistic, because they didn’t know. Seudos mitzvah, weddings, bar mitzvahs, gevalt gevalt! More to come on this one, but the irony and the potential for deep lessons and questions on this matter are limitless.

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