Do gentiles also customarily have sexual relations with birds?- in the Parasha- בלעם + אתון = רכיבות ביום ואישות בלילה
June 27, 2007
(במדבר כד)
ויודע דעת עליון אפשר דעת בהמתו לא הוה ידע דעת עליון מי הוה ידע מאי דעת בהמתו לא הוה ידע בעידנא דחזו ליה דהוה רכיב אחמריה אמרו ליה מאי טעמא לא רכבתא אסוסיא אמר להו ברטיבא שדאי ליה מיד ותאמר האתון הלא אנכי אתונך אמר לה לטעינא בעלמא אמרה ליה אשר רכבת עלי אמר לה אקראי בעלמא אמרה ליה מעודך ועד היום הזה ולא עוד אלא שאני עושה לך רכיבות ביום ואישות בלילה
עבודה זרה ד ע”ב
translation: Bilam fucked his donkey every night.
it would seem that it was Chazal’s custom to attribute to gentiles an exaggerated amount of sexual licentiousness, and due to their licentiousness they elevated the Jews. For example, they said “They [the gentiles] prefer the animals of Jews over their own women,”
The Talmudic Chachamim discussed this topic at length, arguing:
if gentiles customarily have sexual relations with animals, why is one permitted to buy an animal from a gentile and bring it as a sacrifice in the Holy Temple? An animal which has been bred is not permitted as a sacrifice upon the altar. They answered this question: gentiles are careful not to have relations with their own animals; the female so they do not make her unable to bear offspring and the male so he does not wither away. But an animal which belongs to a Jew — it would not matter if they caused a Jew’s animal to become infertile or to wither away, so the gentile would have sexual relations with a Jew’s animal.
The Chachamim continued and asked: If so (if gentiles do not have sexual relations with their own animals because these relations cause damage to the animals, and therefore one may buy their animals for sacrificial purposes), why is one allowed to buy animals from gentile women for sacrificial purposes? The gentile woman is suspect of using the ox, the ram, and the billy goat for sexual purposes (for in this instance there would be no damage to the animal). They answered that even the gentile woman refrains from using her own animals for sexual purposes lest the animal, having enjoyed the sexual contact, pursue the woman and so make it generally known that she has had sexual contact with the animal. Due to shame she refrains from using her animals so. But if it were an animal belonging to a Jew this fear would not exist, for the Jew leaves his animal in her care for only a short while and then takes it back, so the animal would not have the time to pursue the gentile woman. If it is the case that a male will pursue a woman with whom he has had sexual relations, the Chachamim asked why we warn Jewish widows not to stay in houses with male dogs for fear she will make sexual use of the dog. The dog would pursue her and everyone would know how she had used it, and for fear of shame she would refrain and not have sexual contact with a dog. They answered that a dog is different, for the dog’s attention to a woman could also be interpreted to be a plea for food and not necessarily for sexual contact. Therefore no woman fears that she would be suspected of having sexual relations with a dog.
The Chachamim went on to ask: Why is one forbidden to hand over a female animal to a gentile woman? When a female has charge of a female there is no suspicion of sexual contact. They answered that we fear a gentile male will visit his gentile female lover to have sexual relations with her, and if he does not find her, he will use the female animal. Even if the gentile female lover is present, sometimes the gentile male will prefer a female animal owned by a Jew over his own gentile female lover. The Chachamim said “They prefer the animals of Jews over their own women.”
The Chachamim also asked: what is the rule for birds? Do gentiles also customarily have sexual relations with birds? If so, it would also be forbidden to board birds at a gentile’s boarding facility. The Chachamim answered that they do indeed also have sexual relations with birds, and related an incident which once occurred: rav Yehuda said: “ i saw A gentile bought a goose in the marketplace, had sexual relations with it, and then choked the bird, killed it, roasted it, and ate it. They also related an incident from rav Yirmiya that he said: ” i saw an Arab who bought an animal thigh, cut a hole in it the appropriate size for his sexual organ, penetrated it, and then roasted and ate it.
(Avodah Zarah 22b)
איבעיא להו: עופות מאי? תא שמע, דאמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל משום רבי חנינא: אני ראיתי עובד כוכבים שלקח אווז מן השוק, רבעה, חנקה, צלאה ואכלה. וא”ר ירמיה מדיפתי: אני ראיתי ערבי אחד שלקח ירך מן השוק וחקק בה כדי רביעה, רבעה, צלאה ואכלה”.
-learning talmud
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1.
zoroastroyid | June 27, 2007 at 11:33 am
“v’ishus balayla” — some sick shit…
& do we assume that it’s a female?
& since chamoyrim cannot procreate, there is no piryeh v’ribyeh, so what is the heter???
2.
kadosh | June 27, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Rabbi Samuel the son of Nachmani said, ‘What is meant by the verse “A loving doe, a graceful mountain goat; let her breasts satisfy you at all times, be infatuated with love of her always” (Proverbs 5:19)? The Scriptures compared the study of Torah to a doe. As a doe’s vagina is narrow so her mate always has pleasure as he does the first time, so are the words of the Torah always as dear to those who study it as they were the first time’” (Eiruvin 54b).
3.
Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain | June 27, 2007 at 8:31 pm
I have no right to speak for the editors of Cow who post these things, but being the kind of diarrhea-mouth I am, I will anyway.
It’s my belief that the editors of Cow post these repugnant toires NOT as an endorsement of them, but to demonstrate the kinds of vicious, narrow-minded and EVIL crap in Orthodox rabbinic Judaism that they are fighting to overthrow.
If I’m wrong (and I SERIOUSLY doubt that I am) I invite the card-carrying, chaulent fressing Cows — and NOT asshole trolls and other farkakter commenters who come here looking for a fight — to correct me.
Again, what I’m asking to be corrected on — IF correcting is even NEEDED — is my strong belief that such toires as these, and others like those of the Rambam on another thread, are posted by the editors of Cow NOT to “endorse” such crap but to CONDEMN it.
If I’m correct, I think it’s important that the casual visitor to the Cow — whether frum or otherwise or Gentile — should understand that these passages of Talmud and other Rabbinic writings are posted here to expose the ERRORS of rabbinic, Talmudic Judaism and NOT to sanction or promote them.
Yalhak
4.
Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain | June 27, 2007 at 8:33 pm
I have no right to speak for the editors of Cow who post these things, but being the kind of diarrhea-mouth I am, I will anyway.
It’s my belief that the editors of Cow post these repugnant toires NOT as an endorsement of them, but to demonstrate the kinds of vicious, narrow-minded and EVIL crap in Orthodox rabbinic Judaism that they are trying to overthrow.
If I’m wrong (and I SERIOUSLY doubt that I am) I invite the card-carrying, chaulent fressing Cows — and NOT asshole trolls and other farkakter commenters who come here looking for a fight — to correct me.
Again, it’s my belief that such toires as these, and those of the Rambam on another thread, are posted by the editors of Cow NOT to “endorse” but to CONDEMN them.
I think it’s important that the casual visitor to Cow — whether Jew or Gentile — should understand this.
5.
Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain | June 27, 2007 at 8:37 pm
EDITORS: well, the cow was acting up. the first posting of the above didnt appear, so i posted it again — only to find that not only did IT get posted, but the same one right BEFORE it.
Tut mir a toiveh, please remove this post and the one right before it — leaving just the longer, first version.
yalhak
6. Sevenfatcow seven = sacre&hellip | June 27, 2007 at 9:02 pm
[...] beat your wife and fuck her whenever you want wherever you wantReb Yakov Leib HaKohain on Do gentiles also customarily have sexual relations with birds?- in the Parasha- בלעם + אתון …Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain on Do gentiles also customarily have sexual relations with birds?- in the [...]
7.
| June 27, 2007 at 9:53 pm
If they do, and another Gentile finds out, they usually kill them, just like child molesters. These “type” are not the norm, but those who revel in the evil inclination. So they, the fellow Gentiles, kick their parts apart and shout at them while they put them out of their misery. I suppose one could hide long enough to stump an unsuspecting Jew, or a Jew behaving just as secretly, so always be cautious when buying what you have not raised in your own farm. Gee, I guess there are perversions in every lineage!
8.
mohammed | June 28, 2007 at 7:03 am
for some reason, you guys seem to think that stating that bestiality was more prevalent among idol worshippers in talmudic times than among jews in the same period is racist, ethnocentric or whatever.insulting to all gentiles, everywhere, everywhen.
you have two eyewitness accounts that a certain amount of bestiality was going on back then
and just about no statistics for the last two thousand years. on the other hand, now that we have internet, you can google bestiality and see that it’s still alive and kicking. not all that common but I think it’s safe to say that whatever the miniscule percent of the general population in 21st century america doing it(including american secular jews) is still larger by an order of magnitute than the amount of religious jews engaged in the practice.
part of the rituals associated
with “prophesizing” in just about any religion back then, were either trying to be “holy” fasting, seclusion, etc. or assorted perversions, depending on “which side” you were trying to connect with.
maybe bilo’om just couldn’t get a girl, but it’s a reasonable explanation.
here are some links
http://www.news24.com/News24/Entertainment/Abroad/0,,2-1225-1243_2116755,00.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47416
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39685
I liked this one
http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2001/03/08/opinion/2591.shtml
9.
mohammed | June 28, 2007 at 7:06 am
http://books.google.com/books?id=nOqtlvwu9-8C&dq=midas+dekkers+%22dearest+pet%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=rNy1Krk6XJ&sig=5b7kEpT5HXKOMC7zWqv2eCuMPA0#PPA1,M1
10.
Yesod ben Yakov Leib | June 28, 2007 at 12:52 pm
“When I brought your ancestors out of the land of Eygpt, I said nothing to them , gave them no orders, about holocaust and sacrifice. These were my orders: ‘LISTEN TO MY VOICE, then I will be your God and you shall be my people.”(Jeremiah 7 v22. Jerusalem Bible)
11.
mohammed | June 28, 2007 at 2:51 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoophilia#Extent_of_occurrence
The extent to which zoophilia occurs is not known with any certainty, largely because feelings which may not have been acted upon can be difficult to quantify, lack of clear divide between non-sexual zoophilia and everyday pet care, and reluctance by most zoophiles to disclose their feelings due to fear of both social and legal persecution. Instead most research into zoophilia has focused on its characteristics, rather than quantifying it.[4]
Scientific surveys estimating the frequency of zoosexual activity, as well as anecdotal evidence and informal surveys, suggest that more than 1-2% — and perhaps as many as 8-40% — of sexually active adults have had significant sexual experience with an animal at some point in their lives. Studies suggest that a larger number (perhaps 10-30% depending on area) have fantasized or had some form of brief encounter. Larger figures such as 40-60% for rural teenagers (living on or near livestock farms) have been cited from some earlier surveys such as the Kinsey reports, but some later writers consider these uncertain.[4] Anecdotally, Nancy Friday’s 1973 book on female sexuality My Secret Garden comprised around 190 women’s contributions; of these, some 8% volunteered a serious interest or active participation in zoosexual activity.[5]
12.
mamish mishige | June 28, 2007 at 2:59 pm
i heard this shabbos about 2 yeshivah boys who went to the market for the rebes wife to buy fish and fucked the fish before giving it to the rebes wife to cook for shabbos and the man said that they laughed by the meal see all e chasidim eating ther fish
13.
mohammed | June 28, 2007 at 3:07 pm
http://www.nerve.com/Opinions/Singer/heavyPetting/
Some men use hens as a sexual object, inserting their penis into the cloaca, an all-purpose channel for wastes and for the passage of the egg. This is usually fatal to the hen, and in some cases she will be deliberately decapitated just before ejaculation in order to intensify the convulsions of its sphincter. This is cruelty, clear and simple. (But is it worse for the hen than living for a year or more crowded with four or five other hens in barren wire cage so small that they can never stretch their wings, and then being stuffed into crates to be taken to the slaughterhouse, strung upside down on a conveyor belt and killed? If not, then it is no worse than what egg producers do to their hens all the time.)
http://www.nerve.com/personalessays/rinella/depravedindifference/
14.
chamukai | June 28, 2007 at 9:06 pm
ughhh lets all boycott eggs then that are not free range. we must we must
15.
Yesod ben Yakov Leib | June 29, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Gut YalHakian Neo Sabateian Shabbes to you and your families,wether you fuck a chicken or fuck your self,in all you do, remeber god,who created all,is all,and in us all.and if your not to busy stop by and say hi to god this weekend,i seen him yesterday and he said to tell you he will be at the house,all weekend,,,,,,,love yesod
16.
Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain | June 29, 2007 at 1:39 pm
yesod,
yasher koach, mein sun! du machn mir schtoltz.
dein tate
17.
Reb Yakov Leib HaKohain | June 29, 2007 at 1:47 pm
[my yiddish may not be the best but, like birthday presents, it's the thought that counts.]
18.
cavemanrabbi | June 29, 2007 at 9:50 pm
since u believe in visual/imaginary and some of you ilk favor actual sinning
should we also fantasize about cows and same gender sex? hey, = rights under the law
y discrimin8??
and lets not forget the palant kingdom
eucalypti have a right to pleasure too!
btw, was not your innovative system actually practiced among aboriginal and mayan cults thousands of years ago?
y judaize it?
u r not fantasizin about me right now, are you??
becuase it would not be consensual
and the bigger the sin (greater the teshuva)the bigger the bang for the buck
or f…k
?
and isn’t that what your theory is all about?
wud u also recommend cyber sex??
technology in the service of torah!
{hiddur misvah}